edelbrock carb-worth rebuilding?

I have a edelbrock 600cfm carb that I bought on ebay. The previous owner said that it only had about 100 hrs on it. It looks new but runs overly rich and poorly on my 283. I tried it on another engine and it also ran poorly on it. I was told that the edel 600 carbs have larger jets than it should from the factory. I have a 283 freshly rebuilt with new pistons, 9 to 1, .60 over, crane 266 cam-210/210/440/440, stealth dual plane. Someone told me to forget the rebuild of edelbrock carb and get a holley avenger 570 cfm. What do you all think? thanks for the help.

Edelbrock has an instrution book on their website for the Edelbrock Performer carb - a 600cfm straight from the box is too "big" for a 283 as they are nominally set up for ~350 CID engines. The IB takes some time to understand but will allow you with proper jetting and rod, springs, etc make it acceptable. Everything is available from Summit or Jeg's. Holleys - leave for competition use!!!!

Difference of opinion. Holleys work well on the street if set up properly and IMHO they are easier to fine tune than any Edlebrock/Carter ever produced. Holleys don't work too well on spreadbore manifolds without a square bore spacer.

thanks for the advise

"Someone told me to forget the rebuild of edelbrock carb and get a holley avenger 570 cfm."

Is this someone a particularly knowledgeable guy?

I see a lot of recommendations to toss Brand X and install Brand Z.
Poor advice to say the least.

You can make either one of the major manufacturer's carbs run well.
Just takes a little study and a willingness to learn.

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Right now, I'd pull the metering rod covers - one screw each - and see if you have a metering rod hung up.
With the metering rods out you may want to pull the carb top and check float level & drop - spec's are in the Edelbrock manual.

Some guys are reporting that some Edelbrocks are coming through with incorrect float levels.
I have four fairly new Carter/Edelbrocks (same carb) and only one had the floats off and they weren't that far off.

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Go to the Edelbrock website, note the small print and you'll see a place you can click on that will download a manual in PDF format.
PDF is an Adobe deal and you can get Adobe free.
If you don't have it, you'll be prompted to get it.
Very worthwhile in a lot of areas.

Opinions on which carb is better are very diverse. Some people love Edelbrocks and some love Holleys. Both are good carbs, and each has it's own pluses and minuses.

I like Edelbrocks on the street, and Holleys on the track. But that is just me. I find Edelbrocks a little more forgiving to day in day out things like dirt. I just drove my Jeep yesterday to haul a load of scrap to the junkyard, the first time it has been started in 6 months, and it fired right up and never missed a beat the whole trip. I am running a 500 cfm on a 302 in it. Bolted it on out of the box, and have never even turned an adjustment screw.

So, in my opinion, it is worth rebuilding or at least rejetting. I think C9x's suggestion is good about the metering rods. On my '27 I am running 2 Edelbrocks, and every so often I would have to remove them to clear out some rust from the water going down them. ( No hood, rains a lot in Florida)

Don

Yeah, I had to turn down my speakers !!!! :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:


Don

Let me clarify what I was trying to say. Both Edlebrock/Carter and Holleys are good carbs, I think it just depends on what you're comfortable with.
I don't like the idea of having to take off the air horn to adjust the floats on Eddys. And I don't like messing with multiple sets of metering rods in an attempt to find the right combination for the application. And I'm not real thrilled with having to bend the secondary linkage to get the secondaries to come in precisely when you want them to. And after you pull the air horn off the the accelerator pump has a bad habit of drying out causing it to flip up upon inserting it back into it's bore if you don't lubricate it.
Now on a Holley you can adjust the floats from outside, change springs if the secondaries are coming in too fast or slow, change accelerator pump cams to tailor the pump shot and change the pump shooters without ever opening up the carb. And since Holley now has metering valve blow out protection (there is an up grade for older models) they're almost bullet proof.

Without a doubt Denny. I wouldn't trash the carb either, but I would invest in a good book on rebuilding and adjusting an Edlebrock and/or download from Edlebrock's site every piece of information I could find.
I rebuilt (not totally) my 650DP on the side of the road, not something I'd like to try with an Eddy. :eek: :eek: :LOL: :LOL:

[QUOTE=DennyW]I LIKE THEM ALL, and THEY ALL CAN BE MADE TO WORK !! QUOTE]


Yeah . . . my thoughts egzactly.

I do have one Holley in the cupboard . . . it's sorta outnumbered by the others, but it holds it's own.
A 600 smogger, but when the secondaries come in it's like you turned the 2nd engine on.:eek:


I see the comment about tossing Brand X etc. fairly often.

Last time I saw it - on another board - where the guy was commenting about how worthless Edelbrock's etc. were and that he just tossed them in the trash and installed a Holley.

I offered him $50. per each reasonably new Edel carb and I'd pay the shipping.

Kinda strange though, I haven't heard back.:confused:

Ya think he figured out the Edel's had some value and his trash can is now an Edelbrock-free zone? :LOL:

Maybe I should be waiting by the mailbox just in case....;)

wow, it never ceases to amaze me the wealth of knowledge that exists on club hotrod!!!
I think that I will get on the edelbrock website and have faith in my carb rebuilding skills.
I visited the website and see that they do have a techline. They should be able to tell me what size jets, springs and rods to use...although i'm not sure where to purchase these.
Thanks again guys.

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Originally Posted by flanker1970

wow, it never ceases to amaze me the wealth of knowledge that exists on club hotrod!!!
I think that I will get on the edelbrock website and have faith in my carb rebuilding skills.
I visited the website and see that they do have a techline. They should be able to tell me what size jets, springs and rods to use...although i'm not sure where to purchase these.
Thanks again guys.

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Read my earlier post - Summit, Jeg's, plus directly from Edelbrock are the easiest choices.

IHMO - Holley on the track, Edelbrock on the street - and really - they are easy to set up and you don't spill more then a couple of drops of gasoline if you pull the top where on most Holleys you dump several ounces on the manifold usually to make nice stains on the cast aluminum to change main jets, inlet needles and power valves

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DennyW

You mean you don't have a large syringe to suck the fuel out of the float level site hole ? (on most models of Holley). :LOL:

Just like the commercials. :LOL: And, only 1.99 at most stores.

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An empty tuna can works for me.:)
Even better is one with bent-in pouring spout.:cool:


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Flanker 1970 - The manual has a section that shows the original jets, rods and metering rod springs that came with a particular carb.
It also has a chart for each carb that shows you what to use if - for example - you wanted to lean it down a stage or two.

My 32's 462" Buick engine runs an Edelbrock 750.
It ran great at 350' altitude in Central California with nothing more than a metering rod spring change.

I leaned it down two stages after I moved to Sunny Arizona - 108 predicted today* - and ended up at 3400' altitude.
I followed Edelbrock's manual recommendations and the engine runs great.
Both here at the 3400' foot level as well as down at the river at 450' altitude.

Peruse the manual and decide what you want to do.
Order jets, rods and springs from Summit or Jegs.
Get some jets and rods on either side of where you want to go.

The Strip Kits are nice - and getting expensive - but you'll save some $$ if you buy just the few pieces you need.

The Strip Kits are made for a particular range of carbs and I found the 500 cfm Strip Kit to be lacking for tuning the 750.

Keep your eyes open at the swap meets.
I got a brand new - albeit old and dusty, but only missing a couple of rod and jets - Strip Kit for 750's for $5.


Edelbrock/Carters are jetted rich from the factory.
It's only 5% over from what the expected engine size would be so all that's needed is a little fine tuning.

I understand Holley's are the same 5% over on the rich side.


*108 degrees is a bit of a heat wave for us.
Usual temps now are around 92 - 100.
We're about 10-12 degrees cooler than it is down at the river.
Last time we had a 108 - 110 degree heat wave here, it was 117 - 120 at the river.

[QUOTE=C9xI offered him $50. per each reasonably new Edel carb and I'd pay the shipping.

Kinda strange though, I haven't heard back.:confused:

Maybe I should be waiting by the mailbox just in case....;)[/QUOTE]


:LOL: :LOL:

Just a commentary about what I learned while touring E'brock last month. They had a huge bin filled with returned carbs, and talked freely about it being typical of any given day there. They and their primary vendors (Summit & Jegs) have what would likely be called a liberal return policy, pretty much no questions asked. They have a realistic looking/sounding reinspection procedure wherein they find about 3/4 of the returned carbs are without problems, in other words within spec, no parts missing, and so on. Reasons speculated were all over the board, but based just on what we can read here it's likely that folks who don't understand carb tuning are labeling the carb faulty without knowing how to set one up. It's probably due to the belief that a generic carb (relatively) should be a bolt on and go situation.

I'd be willing to bet Holley has one of these bins too, with similar results.

Sell the Eddy 600, it is too large for a 283. Although a 600 maybe set up for a 350, depending on the output of the 350, it may be too much for that too. If you want to stay with Edelbrock, get a 500, which again may be a bit large for the 283 but it will be a better fit than the 600. I have a 600 on my 350/350 and it works very well, no reason to spend more money for a Holley until the one I got goes bad or begins to irratate me.:LOL:

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Originally Posted by C9x

"Someone told me to forget the rebuild of edelbrock carb and get a holley"

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If it was me, I would have elaborated with "if you are using the car for most street driving with very little time on the track then rebuild the Edelbrock carb with the help of their tech line. HOWEVER, if you are looking for a performance carb where you have a more spirited driving style and you expect snap performance from the "go pedal", then a Holley carb is the way to go". Of course not all of us have access to $85,000 worth of computerize, weather compensating portable chassis dyno hardware as I have over the past 5 years (not mine, just a friend who allows me access to it when I need to tune one of my cars)....Edelbrock and the Avenger series of carb are great for the street driven "cruiser", but once again, if you are trying to wring out performance using those particular carbs, you are doing yourself and your engine a disservice."


Bill S.

What Bob says about the returns makes good sense. Most large companies that have a "no questions asked" return policy have an understanding with their vendors. Basically, it says " we are going to buy a ton of (whatever) from you, but you are going to get back a certain percentage of those as defective. We need you to build that into the buying agreement, and never hassle us about a return."

When I worked for companies like Boat U/S and West Marine, the policy was to never ever question a customer who wanted to return something. You simply smiled and graciously gave him or her back their money and apologized for the problem. The people at headquarters knew that the vendor of that product was going to take back the "defective" item as part of their deal.

More and more companies are getting away from this though, as they were losing lots of profit for no reason...........even Walmart has tightened up, and they pretty much started this policy.

Don

Discussing Edelbrock Vs. Holley on carbs is like discussing Chebbie Vs. Mopar for cars.....

Eventually you guys will realize that a Fuel Injected Ford is the BEST and make the changeover to a good setup!!!!!!!

I'm like Bill, I really appreciate having a friend with a chassis dyno and all the computer gear and knowledge to make it work!!!!!

Edelbrock's are somewhat self-regulating if an oversized carb is used.
The engine doesn't pull the air controlled secondary valves open all the way if the carb's CFM rating is not reached.
By the same token an undersized carb will pass more air than it's CFM rating if the engine can pull the CFM.

Since the 600 carb is already installed, make the best of it, jet, rod & spring it to suit the purpose and run it for a while.
Since the carb will seldom be under full throttle I'm sure you'll find the car to have good manners in the driveability dept when on the primaries.
Speaking for myself, if I was running a 283 I wouldn't worry about replacing the 600 Edelbrock.

Years ago, a friend stuck an 850 Holley on a 283 powered El Camino.
I thought he was crazy, but it ran prety good.
He did go to a smaller Carter later on and the 850 Holley was a temporary expedient.
Interesting to see though.

Along those same lines, I oughta con my pal into sticking one of my jetted-for-the-altitude 750 Edelbrock carbs onto his 327 powered 29 roadster.
He's running an overly rich 600 Edelbrock right now and it runs quite well.
Pretty much a stock 327 with a bit of a cam, headers (inefficient block huggers) and a whiny gear drive.
I'm betting the 750 would run pretty good.


Fwiw - couple of years back, Car Craft ran some dyno tests on what were considered oversize carbs and had very good results.
Not sure if it was in the same article or not, but they also found not a whole lot was to be gained by port matching - as long as things were fairly close, good enough.

That article and personal experience makes the old carb size formula an ok place to start, but it ain't the end-all and be-all far as carbs go.


Quite a few years back, Holley ran a vendor/tech help tent at the WinterNats.
They found most problems were cured by returning the carb to factory baseline.

My opinion is that most carb problems with new carbs are simply an incorrect choice by the purchaser.


One last story and then I'll shut up.
About three years ago I went into my favorite speed shop.
A small one in Farmersville, California that carried a lot of genuine speed equipment and stuff for the hard-core drag race crowd.
No bling wheels here although there was a stack of gennie Halibrands on a big shelf high up on the wall.
Along with $30,000. worth of Earls fittings on the other wall.

The owner always had a few intakes, some with carbs, a couple boxes full of used stuff at good prices etc.

One bright and sunny day, I spotted a brand new looking 750 Edelbrock sitting on top of the stuff in one of the boxes.
It was about two weeks old and the speed shop owner thought the kid who bought it had mis-jetted/rodded it.
The kid brought it back cuz he wasn't happy with it and had gone to a Holley.
Which is ok, but since he couldn't make the Edel run, my bet was it wouldn't be long until he painted himself into a corner with the uber-adjustable Holley.
Said adjustments not being a bad thing, in fact a very good thing for some.

Anyway, I asked how much for the carb that the owner had bought from the kid and the price was $125.
Not bad considering the thing cost bout $287. at the time

I bought it, jetted it to the factory baseline level and it ran great.
It's the same carb mentioned above that was later jetted for 3400' altitude and it still runs great.

I don't know what happened to the kid, but I sure am enjoying his 'old' carb....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DennyW

You mean you don't have a large syringe to suck the fuel out of the float level site hole ? (on most models of Holley). :LOL:

Just like the commercials. :LOL: And, only 1.99 at most stores.

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Denny,
That's about as much fun as hitting your thumb with a 2# ball pein hammer:CRY: - especially thru that little bitty 1/4" sight hole, working your way around a float, a needle & seat(side pivoted) and in some cases a baffle - been there..... C9's tuna can works about as well as anything but you still drip some nice, soon to be a gummy, black crud gasoline on that nice new bright and shiny rough cast aluminum intake manifold that is only cleanable with a fresh glass beading:( :whacked:

the only vehicle ive ridden in that has an edelbrock carb was a blown 350 in a 55 with 2 of them, for the street if you can make them work i suppose. but i still like the beloved holley for street/strip use. i have alot of problems with mine because i use that POS proform center section which is in the process of going by by! once you mess the air bleeds up theres no turning back. leave them alone lol. but anyway, that 570 street avenger would be an excellent carb for the street. even a good old fashioned 600 holley.

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Originally Posted by Irelands child

DC9's tuna can works about as well as anything but you still drip some nice, soon to be a gummy, black crud gasoline on that nice new bright and shiny rough cast aluminum intake manifold that is only cleanable with a fresh glass beading:( :whacked:

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Red rag under the tuna can helps, but like you say, not long until the aluminum intake is stained.

Last couple of aluminum intakes I've had I took em out of the box and straight to the powder guy.

Powdered black, they still look good after several years of use.

I believe they have a powder 'color' now that's very close to brushed aluminum.
Thinking of using that on the 31's calipers.

Guess I've never had much trouble dialing in either carb, though admittedly the Edelbrock does take some thorough studying of the Edelbrock calibration guide. The main thing I like about the Edelbrock's is that once they are properly calibrated, they seem to hold the tune much longer then the Holley's. If I'm going racing or any kind of performance driving then it's definitely time for a Holley. Then I go for a ride with a friend of mine who has a pair of Edelbrock's on his blown BBF. Guess it all depends on which you want to run and how much time you want to spend learning to calibrate, then properly calibrating it....